Live discussion with Dr Simon Kyle - 30th July

Dr Kyle will be hosting a live online discussion here on Wednesday 30th July, 7pm-8.30pm.

He will discuss as many topics as possible in the hour and a half, starting with the most popular questions with answers being given in a way to give the most benefit to the general Community.

To have a say in which questions are answered, either:
+ post a question or comment ahead of the discussion, by clicking the blue ‘Add a comment’ button; or
+ vote on other people’s questions, by clicking the blue ‘Yes’ button underneath the relevant comment.

To keep up with new comments as they are posted you will need to 'refresh' this discussion page.

To do this:

- On PC hit 'Ctrl' and 'R' or the 'F5' key
- On Mac hit 'Command' or 'Apple' and 'R'

Posted 25 Jul 2014 at 2:14 PM
  • 19 comments
  • 4 helped

Comments

  • Sleepio Member

    • 12 comments
    • 3 helped
    Graduate

    I am on my third week of my session and my sleep is getting worse. Before this session I was getting about three to four hours of sleep,maybe I should take sleeping pill for a few days .I am trying too hard to sleep maybe.Should I try hyposis

  • Sleepio Member

    • 30 comments
    • 14 helped
    Graduate

    Hi Dr. Kyle,
    I am in my third week of Sleepio and starting SR. One thing I always struggle is falling asleep on the bus going home after work. My bus ride is over an hour due to rush hour traffic. I don't have problem falling asleep but I do wake up after 4 hours or sleep and have a hard time going back to sleep. It makes me very tired after a work day and it's very hard to keep myself awake on the bus. Any advice? Thanks!

  • Sleepio Member

    • 22 comments
    • 3 helped
    Graduate

    Hi Dr Kyle.

    My insomnia experience is getting stranger and more stressful.
    Four nights ago I came in at a 56% sleep efficiency.
    Zero % three nights ago (I was not dozing: I was reading or pacing the whole time); then a whopping, compensatory 90% efficiency two nights ago (felt only partly rested, but ecstatic), then, last night, I sat up or paced for a zero % sleep efficiency again!

    I did all the rituals and manoeuvres, plus listened to guided mediation, then later guided hypnosis, and so on.

    I went to bed a little apprehensive, but hopeful.

    I never expected to have another wide-awake night so soon.

    Weird thing about last night: at one point I felt myself fading. I turned off the light, put my head down, and within a minute was gripped by a non-specific surge of near panic. I had to sit up, calm myself down.

    I just had a thyroid and other tests: all normal.
    The only stressors are my sleep (number ONE stressor), some current back issues that are keeping me from work for perhaps a month total (no income; but I am prepared for this).

    I have a call in to my sleep specialist (a psychiatrist in a city about 800k away….he recommended Sleepio…) to seek his comment/suggestion. I believe that he is on holiday.

    My GP knows little to nothing about sleep disorders, and there is no resource nor physician in my town or region with sleep disorder knowledge or interest.

    I have an appointment to see a psychologist tomorrow, about stress and anxiety (no one seems to have any interest or expertise in sleep, so this is as close as I can get).

    How crazy am I?
    How many nights can one go like this?

  • Sleepio Member

    • 46 comments
    • 12 helped
    Graduate

    Hello Dr.
    My sleep efficiency is good but I don't seem to be able to stay asleep for the full SW (11.15pm – 5.15am). I am up around 4ish. Not sure what is waking me at that ungodly hr. I am doing things between 10-11pm so I don't fall asleep but that hasn't helped. No problems falling off to sleep, just staying asleep for that solid 6 hrs. Thanks.

  • Sleepio Member

    • 5 comments
    • 0 helped
    Graduate

    Hi I have completed the course but I am stuck at the SR part. I am consistently overtired at night, itchy eyes, pains in my body watery eyes and eyes closing early evening. I am unable to doze during the day so that is out. If I stay up longer I go past the the sleepy tired stage to overtired and then I get very little or no sleep. I use Zopiclone once or twice a week so that I am fit for my commitments but I still go this sleepy overtired way every day. Am I a hopeless case or is there any solution to this!! Tried CBT earlier on in the year and got stuck then with the SR part. So this is my second time trying!

  • Sleepio Member

    • 46 comments
    • 12 helped
    Graduate

    Hi Dr
    When I can't get back to sleep after ~2.30 hrs sleep, is it alright to lie in bed and listen to progressive relaxation and autogenic training audio? This would break the QHR but should I or could I try this method of getting back to sleep? Thanks.

  • Sleepio Member

    • 1192 comments
    • 306 helped
    Expert

    Good evening, all. welcome to tonight's session… let's get started…

  • Sleepio Member

    • 1192 comments
    • 306 helped
    in reply to Sleepio Member
    Expert

    hi machado3… very often the first few weeks are the most difficult, particularly if you are implementing SR… it takes some time retrain your sleep-wake pattern. perseverance with your new schedule will certainly help, as too will a change in attitude from “trying too hard to sleep”, to allowing sleep to overcome you… This can all take some weeks though. are you having difficulty with aspects of the course in particular?

  • Sleepio Member

    • 1192 comments
    • 306 helped
    in reply to Sleepio Member
    Expert

    Hi FredHK, great question. With the introduction of SR, you may feel that normal sleepiness is slightly enhanced. Maintaining (safe) wakefulness during the day is important to permit the build up of sleep pressure which helps consolidate sleep during the night. One way to stave off the sleepiness during the commute home, is to try and schedule activities (e.g. something that engages the brain, to maintain a level of arousal). These activities can vary from person to person (e.g. reading, watching news on phone/tablet, newspaper, holding a conversation) but it is worth experimenting to find what is right/best for you.

  • Sleepio Member

    • 1192 comments
    • 306 helped
    in reply to Sleepio Member
    Expert

    Thanks for your post, Profomnia. The first thing to say is that many poor sleepers can have a similar variable pattern across nights. It is also encouraging that you had a night of 90% SE – showing that you have the “sleep capacity”, the ability to sleep consolidated. The “panic” you described may also be a hypnic jerk, sometimes described as a sudden bolt – a very normal experience, particularly linked to stress and sleep deprivation. It is still worth discussing with your psychologist/sleep specialist though.

    Maintaining SR schedule, fixed bed and rise times, going to bed only when sleepy, avoiding daytime napping/dozing (and having access to light and being physically active during the day, if possible), together with some helpful relaxation strategies should help to reduce this variability over time. I see you are a graduate of the course have you revisited some of these strategies recently? found any particularly effective?

  • Sleepio Member

    • 1192 comments
    • 306 helped
    in reply to Sleepio Member
    Expert

    Thanks, won052. this is a good question. first thing to say is that great you are getting 5 continuous hours! couple of questions: what is your natural pattern – have you always been an early riser? If you were permitted to sleep at say 10 o'clock would you sleep through until 4am? Just getting a sense of your natural rhythm/pattern.
    What do you tend to do when you wake? get out of bed and return when sleepy? It is very common to have brief awakenings; how we respond to these may assist/hinder our ability to resume sleep.

  • Sleepio Member

    • 1192 comments
    • 306 helped
    in reply to Sleepio Member
    Expert

    Thanks for your post, Lindann. not sure how many weeks you are post-SR, but this is a common experience. it can take weeks and sometimes months of SR to become fully effective for some. certainly you are not a hopeless case!

    it might take some re-evaluation of how you are doing SR and what other complementary sleepio strategies you are doing at the same time. What is your current sleep window? does it suit your natural sleep-wake rhythm? is the principal difficulty with waking up or falling asleep and how do you respond to this during the night? Do you feel you have any other issues with sleep? (breathing difficulties/ restless leg movements?)

    Once you have established these basics, it might also be worth thinking about what you are doing during the day to try and limit feelings of fatigue and sleepiness. The community of graduates has vast experience with implementing and adhering to SR, so it is definitely worth asking them for some advice as well; you will find for some the improvements can take many re-attempts and re-evaluations of SR.

  • Sleepio Member

    • 1192 comments
    • 306 helped
    in reply to Sleepio Member
    Expert

    great question won052 – that's right. relaxation and autogenic training may be very helpful in this instance. if you feel that you are remaining alert afterwards, then it is a good idea to subsequently implement QHR.

  • Sleepio Member

    • 1192 comments
    • 306 helped
    Expert

    anyone else joining us tonight with some burning questions?

  • Sleepio Member

    • 1192 comments
    • 306 helped
    Expert

    thanks for joining tonight and posting your questions. Look forward to “speaking” next time. Please do continue to discuss any topics raised, even after the session has formally ended.

  • Sleepio Member

    • 1 comments
    • 1 helped
    Session 1

    How does one determine what the ideal number of hours needed is on a personal basis? I hear 6-9 is the ideal. How much does the efficiency of the sleep itself play into that figure – is 6 hours at 90% as good as or better than 9 hours at 75% for example? I feel like I am getting deep sleep (because I am dreaming) but only manage to clock 6-7 hours a night usually and am still feeling tired during the day. Thanks!

  • Sleepio Member

    • 5 comments
    • 0 helped
    in reply to Sleepio Member
    Graduate

    Don't know if it is to late to reply to this but I have difficulty getting over to sleep and difficulty staying asleep. I stop drinking caffeine at 3.30 each day, seldom drink alcohol, have my meal at least 3 hours before bed, practise relaxation before bed and practise 'the' and imagery strategies when in bed. My difficulty with SR is staying up and being fit for my commitmentments. I am totally wrecked when I do it and not fit for purpose.
    If I could wake up one morning and not feel tired I think I could give it a go, but every day I wake up I am still tired. and as the day progresses that gets worse.
    Overall I am fit in other ways, walk a couple of miles most days and more at the weekends. This helps me relax also.

  • Sleepio Member

    • 35 comments
    • 19 helped
    in reply to Sleepio Member
    Graduate

    Hi Lindann, I have felt exactly the same as you with the SR part of the course and almost gave up as I felt so awful. I have also completed the course and am at last sleeping better, although there's still room for improvement, and feeling a lot better during the day. I think I've achieved this by adapting the Sleepio methods to what I've discovered suits me best so not following it to the letter any more. I try and go to bed at the time I'm supposed to but if I'm too tired then I go earlier otherwise, like you, I go past the sleepy stage and become too alert. I do practice QHR as I still wake up during the night and that definitely helps me to get back to sleep again. I no longer set the alarm for 5:30 a.m. but usually wake up naturally between 7 and 8 a.m. I'm sure my S.E. and S.W. aren't what they should be but the fact that I feel better is good enough for me and maybe in time they will also improve. Hope this is of some help to you and that this time around you'll start feeling better.

  • Sleepio Member

    • 5 comments
    • 0 helped
    in reply to Sleepio Member
    Graduate

    Thanks Mascan for you reply. It does make me feel a bit better to hear how you are doing. I am doing my best just now. How I feel during the day hasn't improved yet but I feel hopeful that it might come.

    Lindann

Return to top