Live Discussion with Dr Simon Kyle - 15th May

Dr Kyle will be hosting a live online discussion here on Wednesday 15th May 7pm-8pm (GMT).

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Posted 10 May 2013 at 9:31 AM
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  • Sleepio Member

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    Expert

    thanks for sharing dream on

  • Sleepio Member

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    Expert

    HI HarryBear – certainly these over the counter remedies should not interfere with CBT techniques; we know that CBT strategies work well, also when combined with prescription sleeping pills. Ideally, though, CBT will reduce the need to take medication in the long-term for sleep; so that we can restore normal sleep processes. I should also say these OTC's have no evidence base for improving sleep in people with chronic poor sleep/insomnia, although they may help the good sleeper with the odd poor night here and there.

  • Sleepio Member

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    Expert

    thanks for sharing ochavo. mindfulness meditation based practice may be very helpful for the reasons you describe and we need more research on its effectiveness in poor sleep. There are some preliminary trials but nothing solid yet.

  • Sleepio Member

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    thanks for joining Rocky

  • Sleepio Member

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    Expert

    Thanks Rocky. you are right; often engaging in a programme of techniques, working hard, shows that YOU can change and improve sleep. Giving you back sleep confidence and, importantly, predictable, regular nightly sleep. I think often sleep is viewed as such a natural right, that we feel we ought to do it ourself. From the research literature, both medication and CBT approaches may have a role, with CBT having the best evidence for promoting enduring improvements in sleep.

  • Sleepio Member

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    Expert

    HI Skelly, thanks for sharing. early morning awakenings and light sleep can be very common during stressful life events/periods. I think you are certainly doing all the right things – revisiting techniques you've learned (particularly those that might help improve thought control, or reduce the chance that you are worrying before and during the sleep period), adhering to your SR window, and having an accepting approach. Perhaps seemingly paradoxically, but accepting that an issue exists may help limit its impact on sleep. It is also worth thinking about your natural rhyhtms – are you adhering to fixed meals times, when you are exposed to light in the morning, etc. these thigns will promote stability in the timing and consolidation of sleep at night.

  • Sleepio Member

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    thanks Raedw – these are great questions. Although this can differ from person to person, often rigorously adhering to SR and QHR in the weeks, possibly months following graduation, will help bring about the best and sustained improvements in sleep. It is worth going back to basics, making sure you are implementing strategies as well as possible. Can anyone share similar experiences?

  • Sleepio Member

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    Expert

    thanks JC3 – great question and for this I wish I could post a graph that I've been working on today relating to sleep time! I'll describe the common pattern though. Often by say 5-6 weeks of going through a CBT-based course, total sleep time can be similar to pre-CBT, but time taken to fall alseep during the night and time awake during the night, is reduced markedly (and sleep efficiency is higher). But if you follow people up, say 3 months or six months later, then this is when total sleep time begins to improve over and above pre-CBT, while still retaining the improvements in time to fall asleep, wakefulness during the night. This is a long way of saying the first weeks are sleep retraining getting your sleep on track, changing your approach, and understanding your sleep needs, while the weeks and months after, cement these improvements and lengthen total sleep time.

  • Sleepio Member

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    Expert

    Hi everyone – I realise I've been posting a lot – is there anyone out there tonight? with any questions/discussion topics?

  • Sleepio Member

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    Graduate

    Hi Dr Kyle – are you on your own tonight? I just popped in to see what you said to valkaye as I had a similar problem after graduating.

  • Sleepio Member

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    Expert

    Hi nightjar, thanks for joining. I think we are a quiet bunch tonight!

  • Sleepio Member

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    Graduate

    Yes it seems so! I have found the 5hrs sleep limit lasted for several months after I graduated. I decided to get up if I woke anytime from 5am onwards. After several moths this paid off and my time asleep gradually increased – its now averaging between 6 and 6 1/2 hours. i am finding lately though that I am experiencing more time in a light very dream filled sleep in the early morning.

  • Sleepio Member

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    Graduate

    I have only just started the course however in general I tend to sleep well for extended periods of time and then have a period of insomnia when sometimes I am awake all night or at least for long periods. I notice that quite a few people seem to have regular insomnia. Is there any difference?

  • Sleepio Member

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    Graduate

    Thanks for your reply. I can persevere – my sleep is no worse. The improvements – faster to fall asleep and much much less crazy wakefulness – happenned very quickly. I look forward to the longer term improvements – my dream(!) is 6.5+ hours regularly :)

  • Sleepio Member

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    Expert

    thanks for sharing nightjar – often many factors may be at play, that might just be casually affecting our sleep e.g. change in light levels/seasons, or clock-time, period of stress, etc. Often this will wane over time, particularly for you who has demonstrated such great improvements, so that accepting approach may be helpful in the short-term. If you feel it is becoming more of a pattern then good to go back to (CBT) basics and see whether anything needs modified/improved upon.

  • Sleepio Member

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    Expert

    Hi HarryBear – often they may have different mechanisms. Certainly most research has focussed on chronic poor sleepers (say poor sleep more than 3 nights a week over several months), but as you describe, poor sleep can affect different people in different ways. What you describe sounds like poor sleep comes in bursts, sleepio and CBT-based techniques will help you understand what factors may be involved and how to improve sleep quality/limit episodes of disturbed sleep. We need more research into different types or manifestations of sleep disturbance (e.g. some may react to work stress, but generally be fine, even for other types of stress, while others may always sleep poor when away from home, for example).

  • Sleepio Member

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    Expert

    That's us for tonight, folks. Thanks for joining and speak next time!

  • Sleepio Member

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    Graduate

    A belated thank you for your response. I don't know if you will get this reply now but in answer to your question the afternoon dip is not like a normal dip – I feel wrecked! Not pleasant at all and not something I could cope with in the long term. I will try your suggestions re playing around with the sleep window though and see how that goes. thanks again

  • Sleepio Member

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    in reply to Sleepio Member
    Graduate

    A belated thank you for your response. I don't know if you will get this reply now but in answer to your question the afternoon dip is not like a normal dip – I feel wrecked! Not pleasant at all and not something I could cope with in the long term. I will try your suggestions re playing around with the sleep window though and see how that goes. thanks again

  • Sleepio Member

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    Graduate

    Karoline do you have support and supervision in place in relation to your work? If not it is something you should think about. I am a Clinical Psychologist by profession although now retired and coped with that kind of second hand trauma every day in life when i was working so it is a very familiar issue. It can be difficult but it's totally essential for your own wellbeing to find ways of managing the boundaries for yourself. Supervision and support is the key to that though the techniques meditation putting the day to bed etc are also very helpful

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