Live discussion with Dr Simon Kyle - 15th July

Dr Kyle will be hosting a live online discussion here on Wednesday 8th July 7pm-8.30pm BST.

He will discuss as many topics as possible in the hour and a half and, as always, you’re welcome to ask any questions at all about sleep or the Sleepio program. Please do note however that, as per our guidelines, Dr Kyle won’t be able to give highly specific medical advice. He will however try to help as best as he can!

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Posted 9 Jul 2015 at 3:47 PM
  • 19 comments
  • 4 helped

Comments

  • Sleepio Member

    • 28 comments
    • 2 helped
    Graduate

    Hi Dr Kyle
    It may be that some of us may have to be content with a limited amount of sleep at night. However, I wonder if you have any further information on non-restorative sleep. I got the impression recently that this was something other than insomnia symtoms/causes. I do not seem to have any medical deficiences which might contribute to non-restorative sleep and would be grateful for any guidance on this aspect of sleep problems. Many thanks. B

  • Sleepio Member

    • 12 comments
    • 1 helped
    Graduate

    Where to add sex in the Pro-Sleep Schedule?

    I know it’s very direct (and sorry for that). It is clear that sex (and masturbation) can cause some sleepiness, and therefore can be positive in effect on getting faster to sleep – but where to put it in the Pro-Sleep Schedule?

    Would it t.ex. be OK to add 20 minutes between the “Pre-bed tasks” and the “In bed” (focused sleep)?

  • Sleepio Member

    • 25 comments
    • 7 helped
    Graduate

    i graduated in mid march this year. SE was 82%. I've stayed with the program, and made good progress until about 10 days ago when I started waking too early again. I started to feel that the sleep diary wasn't accurately reflecting my sleep patterns (e.g no way of recording that I woke at 4, got up after 15 minutes and sorted papers for an hour, then went back to bed but still unable to sleep, so got up at 5.30). SE is apparently 85%, though it doesn't feel that efficient! The prof continued to extend the sleep window even when I felt I wasn't doing well. I abandoned the sleep dairy ten days ago for this reason. I'm wondering if I should start again from scratch but I don't know how to do this.
    I'll be glad of some help!

  • Sleepio Member

    • 1192 comments
    • 306 helped
    Expert

    evening folks, welcome to tonight's session… let's get started…

  • Sleepio Member

    • 12 comments
    • 1 helped
    in reply to Sleepio Member
    Graduate

    Good evening
    I was the one adding the questions above regarding to sexual activities in the Pro-Sleep schedule
    Thanks

  • Sleepio Member

    • 1192 comments
    • 306 helped
    in reply to Sleepio Member
    Expert

    great question Blodwen. it is possible to experience normal total sleep time but have unrefreshing/poor quality sleep. This can often be the case for example in chronic fatigue syndrome. It is not entirely clear why this is the case but it likely relates to e.g. brief arousals that we are unaware of or altered architecture/regulation of sleep phases, although there is limited research looking at this specifically. Some psychological factors may also be important, both pre-sleep and during the day.

    Here is an article that may be of use. there is limited evidence-base on how to treat or improve non-restorative sleep but interest in this important area is increasing. I have witnessed people improve their sleep quality through e.g. CBT approaches, but proper controlled trials just don't exist.

    https://www.sleepio.com/library/article/what-accounts-for-unrefreshing-sleep-/

  • Sleepio Member

    • 1192 comments
    • 306 helped
    in reply to Sleepio Member
    Expert

    great question RHjorth!

    you are spot on – the bed is for sleep and intimacy, eliminating all other activities.

    Interestingly, there is little support for the assumption of sex as a facilitator of sleep, but only a few studies have been conducted!

  • Sleepio Member

    • 12 comments
    • 1 helped
    in reply to Sleepio Member
    Graduate

    Thanks. So t.ex. if I have 5:30 as In bed time, i can add t.ex. 20 minutes for intimacy (when relevant?) I do I still “only” have 5:30?

    (on my third night of Pro-Sleep, but feel really excited about the results so far! :-)

  • Sleepio Member

    • 1192 comments
    • 306 helped
    in reply to Sleepio Member
    Expert

    thanks biddyp and congratulations on your progress so far.
    in part, a good outcome of the sleepio programme is that you are able to tolerate a few bad nights and return to normal sleep again – much like a good sleeper experiences. So a few things. it is worth considering how you are responding to a poor night of sleep – both during the night and during the day, and reinstate some of the strategies you learned previously.

    re the diary – were you not able to record how many minutes you were awake for during the sleep period, to index your total amount of wakefulness?

    It is worth going back to basics of the programme, e.g. thinking about the regularity of your sleep-wake schedule, length of the sleep window, any lifestyle/environmental factors that may be having an effect to cause early morning awakenings (e.g. light levels, time to bed).

    ultimately you have the confidence now that sleep quality can be improved, something you have demonstrated in recent months so with a return to some sleepio basics, hopefully you will begin to experience better sleep

  • Sleepio Member

    • 1192 comments
    • 306 helped
    in reply to Sleepio Member
    Expert

    Hi RHjorth – not sure I'm following. do you mean your out of bed time is set at 5.30am?

  • Sleepio Member

    • 12 comments
    • 1 helped
    in reply to Sleepio Member
    Graduate

    Sorry, what I ment was:

    if I according to my schedule, go to bed 00:45 and exists bed 6:15.

    f i'm lucky enough for intimacy, is it then OK to go in bed t.ex. 20 minutes earlier and “cheat” the schedule, OR should I stay with the schedule and sleep 20 minutes less?

  • Sleepio Member

    • 10 comments
    • 1 helped
    Graduate

    Hi Dr Kyle,
    I decided to shift my sleep window by one hour to 12 midnight until 7.30am. It was previously 11pm until 6.30am. I did this after filling in an online test recommended by one of the other sleep experts, which told me that my melatonin onset time is 10.15pm and that my natural bedtime is 12 midnight. This one-hour shift has worked wonders for my sleep. My sleep window now coincides almost entirely with natural sleepiness. However, it is not sustainable for me to continue to rise at 7.30am as it doesn't enable me to get to work on time. I am currently taking taxis to work instead of catching the bus so that I can continue with this wonderful new schedule, but this is not sustainable cost-wise!

    Rather than flexing my working hours (not possible at the moment), or giving up an hour's sleep, can I train my body and mind to want to go to bed one hour earlier, at 11pm? Or are people biologically programmed to become sleepy at a certain time, with little scope to change this? Thanks.

  • Sleepio Member

    • 1192 comments
    • 306 helped
    in reply to Sleepio Member
    Expert

    I think in part you need to work out plan that is best for you and partner and keep approach consistent. e.g. entering the bedroom slightly in advance of your prescribed sleep window as long as you are not attempting to sleep; other couples for example have moved to a different bedroom; while others incorporate within the sleep window (accepting that this would ultimately be recorded as less “efficient sleep”, owing to increased time in bed awake).
    hope this helps!

  • Sleepio Member

    • 25 comments
    • 7 helped
    in reply to Sleepio Member
    Graduate

    Thanks for your encouraging response. I will certainly reinstate the winding down routine and thought checker., and yes, sleepio has given me more confidence about getting back on track. I'm not clear as to what I should do about the sleep window: i think it is currently set at 11.30 to 7.30. I will try to be stricter about sticking to that – although tonight I am so exhausted I am tempted to go to bed very soon indeed. Probably a very bad idea? My fear is that I might wake again at 4 and not be able to get any more sleep after that…
    The lack of sleep is affecting my memory very badly indeed. I keep losing things and forgetting so many details, it's frightening.
    About a month ago I started taking a ceterizine hayfever tablet on days when pollen count was very high. I'm beginning to think I did sleep very deeply as a result for a few nights. Maybe stopping the pills about a week ago has thrown me into this disarray?

  • Sleepio Member

    • 1192 comments
    • 306 helped
    in reply to Sleepio Member
    Expert

    great question jenny B
    what sleep test did you complete?

    we certainly have tendencies (which can be quite stable over time) towards sleeping and waking at a particular time (called chronotype). it is well known that those who prefer to sleep and rise later tend to be more disadvantaged, as they tend to have to rise for work and other related activities (I am one of them!)

    https://www.sleepio.com/library/article/do-you-really-get-people-who-are-owls-and-others-w/

    it is possible to help adapt to a new rhythm through for example, morning light exposure (which can help advance your sleep window back). (although generally this needs to be maintained over the long-term but might be worth trying

  • Sleepio Member

    • 1192 comments
    • 306 helped
    Expert

    thanks for joining tonight folks and for your questions. I will try to answer some questions I missed tomorrow.

  • Sleepio Member

    • 10 comments
    • 1 helped
    in reply to Sleepio Member
    Graduate

    Thanks Dr Kyle. That's helpful. The questionnaire is the CET 'morningness-eveningness questionnaire' (AutoMEQ).

  • Sleepio Member

    • 28 comments
    • 2 helped
    in reply to Sleepio Member
    Graduate

    Just come home and read your reply. Many thanks. I look forward to reading the articles AND for more research developments on the problem. Thanks again. B

  • Sleepio Member

    • 1 comments
    • 0 helped
    Graduate

    i have such a great improvement with my sleep over the pat few weeks. I am on some sleeping tablets that are helping heaps, especially with my nightmares but i was wondering if their were any other changes i could make to my sleep to assist with them?

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