Can you think you're awake when actually you're asleep?

Posted 10 Mar 2011 at 4:09 PM
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  • Sleepio Member

    • 7 comments
    • 1 helped
    Graduate

    I am tracking my sleep with a Jawbone UP. Last nigh at dinner I drank more wine than I normally would, let's say two plus glasses white wine. Much of the night I felt conscious, but not enough to get out of bed. My UP says I slept all night, just between light sleep and deep sleep. I realize now that I am often aware or conscious during sleep, such as early sleep. It's not as restorative as deep sleep but it is brain sleeping.
    Make sense?

  • Sleepio Member

    • 13 comments
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    Graduate

    I've been using a jawbone UP too, and it's been really useful as it nearly always shows I'm getting more sleep than I think I have. Personally I've found this reassuring and has helped reduce my anxieties around sleep as I know the reality is I'm getting more sleep than I thought I was, as a result I'm coping with days following nights where I haven't had loads of sleep much better than I was. No massive improvement in my sleep yet but I feel more positive. Fingers crossed things will begin to get better! I'd be pretty sceptical about my ability to accurately fill in the sleep diary without it.

  • Sleepio Member

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    in reply to Sleepio Member
    Session 4

    I feel exactly the same ? How do you feel now, have you gotten better ? I also saw a doctor and she is link you look perfectly normal, your eyes arent red , you dont look tired and so on… But I really feel my quality of sleep is bad. Please tell me more about your experience.

  • Sleepio Member

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    Session 3

    I realized I was sleeping early this morning, when I thought I wasn't due to the images that were going through my head.

  • Sleepio Member

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    Graduate

    I think I might sleep while I think I'm awake, too….

  • Sleepio Member

    • 9 comments
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    Session 2

    I find this subject of being in a state of not knowing if I have been asleep (for any amount of time) to be a very subjective area to cover. For instance: Last night was not a good night for me; I won't complain, for the last three nights I've had a relatively good 'high-score' in regard to sleeping hours. In any case, let's say that a night without sleep is always going to be a downer unless we analyse what might be behind it and try to put a positive spin into the following day, as hard as that can sometimes be … (that's another topic)

    Anyway …

    As far as I was aware I was not sleeping. But that was only until I suddenly recall a dream I'd had. I glance over at the clock, then ponder on where the last two hours have gone and only THEN feel the need to wonder if I have slept or not. I suppose one could say it's easy to say I've slept if the past two hours seems to have passed pretty quickly, but that's far from an accurate way of looking at the issue. I can say this because I've glanced at the clock in the same way, feeling 100% confident that I have not slept and had no dream/s. But … Does me being 100% confident that I didn't sleep because I didn't dream mean 100% accurate? Does this issue seem confusing to you?

    For me, IMHO, it will always be a subjective, grey area and if I don't know for sure if I've slept or not slept? ... I can only consider I did not sleep simply because I consider it better to err on the side of caution. But then again … ?

    F

  • Sleepio Member

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    Graduate

    I like what you have messaged FF, I have been with sleepio over 2 years now and in the past and occasionally in the present I suddenly become aware that I haven't slept, or think I haven't, and need to get up for a while. But once up I remember a dream and you have to sleep to dream, so I go back to bed and sleep.

    In fact I noticed the clock at 1.10 am this morning and thought 'oh no, I can't get to sleep', so I got up and went to the bathroom because I have found if I do that then I fall asleep when I get back into bed a couple of minutes later, but I always remember a dream or part of it.

    I think it is a symptom of insomnia FF, but I think there is some information in the library about it. I sleep well now, mostly, so I don't search the site so much these days but have a look in the library and see what it says.

    Hope you are OK and sleep is improving for you.

    Ve

  • Sleepio Member

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    in reply to Sleepio Member
    Graduate

    Yes, it is quite possible to think we have not been asleep at times when really we have. I've had some experiences lately waking up an hour or two early when I thought for sure I'd been lying there awake for 15 – 20 min. and looked to see what time it was and was surprised to see that more than an hour had passed. I think dozing off tricks us, especially when lying comfortably in bed, because we're not in a deep enough state of sleep to feel truly 'out'. Of course, having a dream (of a nature that distinguishes it from conscious imaginative thought), is certainly a good clue we've been asleep. I agree there can be a subjective nature to our conclusions of whether we've actually been asleep or not. It's also possible that lying awake for long stretches of time can be interspersed with brief bouts of dozing we're not even aware of. (After decades of long sleepless nights, I'm fully acquainted with this! With Sleepio however, those “long stretches of lying awake” are now a thing of the past).

    I remember reading a book on sleep disorders a few years ago where they related the story of a woman who swore she was awake most of the night, most of the time while her husband slept soundly. Then one night someone broke into their home and entered their bedroom. I don't recall the details of the story, but the husband somehow encountered the intruder and scared him off, and the wife never heard any of it. Her beliefs that she seldom slept or always slept lightly were disproved through that incident.

    Maybe that unknown, unrecognized sleep plays a part in what gets us through some of those days we thought would be terrible due to such poor sleep the previous night, and we're amazed we coped as well as we did.

  • Sleepio Member

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    in reply to Sleepio Member
    Graduate

    We have all been there, Frank, believing we have not slept a wink but then realising if we look at the time that we have in fact been dozing.
    Have you got a tracker of any kind? They are far from perfect but they can show that our sleep patterns are much more complex that we think and it is rare, if not unknown, to not sleep a wink all night. Your question about being certain you didn't dream mean you can be certain you didn't sleep would be answered immediately by a tracker that would probably show you to have had 25% or more R.E.M sleep that night The fact that you don't remember dreams doesn't mean you did not have them.
    Try not to worry too much about estimating sleep, otherwise puzzling over that will keep you awake. how you feel the next day is more important than the statistics.

  • Sleepio Member

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    in reply to Sleepio Member
    Graduate

    I don't agree with you there OFSS, I have had plenty of nights when I haven't slept a wink, before sleepio and in the early days of sleepio. I have also had nights when I thought I hadn't slept and then remembered dreaming. Not now though, thanks to sleepio I sleep every night.

    Hope you are well.

  • Sleepio Member

    • 9 comments
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    in reply to Sleepio Member
    Session 2

    I purchased a tracker soon after having problems with sleeping. At first I thought it helpful for not just sleeping, but other fitness activities also. But then I had big issues in how it recorded my sleep patterns. It showed me awake when I knew I was asleep (there are times it's easy to determine if we are asleep, so I knew at those times I was sound asleep.) I became worse, and then the readings became really out of synch and I found myself figuring out AND overriding what y Fitbit wanted to have me believe.

    The short of it … was that I tried 3 fitness trackers and none of them were close enough for me to be confident in any of them and so I no longer have one.

    A point worth mentioning (I feel) is the less problems a person has with sleeping the less they will rely on a fitness tracker to begin with in regard to sleeping. ie: If it shows a person to be awake half the night when they slept straight through, then it's easy to shrug it off, say how wrong it is, even giggle at how wrong it might be and not to rely on it. If a person sleeps badly, then I think a fitness tracker needs to be more precise than they are at this moment in time.

    This is, of course, all a personal matter of opinion and subjective. I would be the first person to congratulate anyone who would declare they feel a fitness tracker works for them … but given my experience, I have little faith to believe they work at least for me.

    :-)

    F

  • Sleepio Member

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    Graduate

    This is a fasinating development and take on sleeping or not…or both?

    https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/321388.php

  • Sleepio Member

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    Session 5

    Is it just me or the sleep diary that I jot down throughout the night/morning is adding a lot more to my anxiety over sleep. It's like clockwatching pretty much if you need to write down what you took at what time, time spent awake etc… Too much pressure and makes me very anxious, also keeping me up even more waiting for the next thing to jot down. Also the course is for 6 weeks, I feel that I am not getting the help I need NOW when I have severe insomnia: with sleeping pills eg zolpidem only get 2-3 hr sleep or without it and only taking supplements eg 5-HTP complex, Atarax and Night Kalms only manage to sleep at 4/5/6am for 1.5/2 hrs max which is not ideal as once I am back at work or when it's a school day I can't afford to wake up at 7/8am when I usually get up at 6am. So even this little sleep is taken away from me at the moment. Not sure how long I will be able to function like this, very flopsy, limbs aching, disorientated, losing my memory, don't remember things, hard to express myself, slow when talking. Propranolol was prescribed on Fri to treat the anxiety over sleep, since I have bad chest pain, very tight and uncomfortable also have sore throat as a side effect. Can't stop taking it as says on the pack but have no GP until Thursday/Friday. NHS is bad!! By the way my fitness tracker does not record my sleep accurately, records me sleeping when I am actually awake and not even in bed.

  • Sleepio Member

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    in reply to Sleepio Member
    Graduate

    I' m interested to hear sleep tracker doesn't really give an accurate account of ones sleep. Even when I am awake I keep very still( got into this habit so my husband would think I was asleep) but has the fitbit fooled! It gives me loads more sleep than I actually have.I am in my 4th week of program and hating getting up at night. Winter is just starting here.

  • Sleepio Member

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    Session 4

    I don't think any apps, Fitbits etc are very accurate as they rely on motion & pressure to guess whats going on. I use a app called 'Pillow' which is free to try & about $7 (AUS) for a version that allows you to keep recording & download the results.
    I'd say its about 75% accurate – which means I don't believe everything it tells me but I use it as a guide & correct the rest. I've found it good to have something automatically recording your sleep rather than trying to guess or remember. Every little technique helps!

  • Sleepio Member

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    in reply to Sleepio Member
    Graduate

    Hi PB93, I didn't use any gadgets to record my sleep but I think some people find them helpful. I just guessed it when I had to do the sleep diary. Sometimes I didn't know if I had been asleep or not, but I continued with the programme and I get really good sleep now with just the odd blip.

    We have hot weather here in the UK at the moment which can often keep people awake, but I am still following what I learnt from Prof and still sleeping well through it, we are not used to it being really hot here.

    Hope you are finding sleepio helpful, it needs a little patience and perseverance but it works. I am 3 years down the line now of being on here and there has been a lot of success.

    Ve

  • Sleepio Member

    • 2 comments
    • 0 helped
    Session 1

    i have got out of bed. fed the cats i have two. let the dog out for a wee i have 1 dog and fed the love bird it's new seed and water. made a coffee listen to the news while drinking the coffee i have gone through house work etc. only to WAKE up and find i was in bed and my day has not yet started. i get so confused when this happens. that i now write things down like a to do list. and who asked me what and who said what. i am used to it more now but at 1st i was a rek.

  • Sleepio Member

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    Session 3

    Thought I was bad!
    Woke up the other day and it was daylight ..horrayyy, I slept through!!
    So excited..I woke up:-(

  • Sleepio Member

    • 10 comments
    • 3 helped
    Graduate

    Do you sometimes feel that you are not sure if you slept or not? I think I can be at this point for hours, I look at the clock and see that suddenly two hours have passed. At this time, I hear every little noise and I'm not sure I slept. Does this happen to anyone here? And if so how do you deal with it?

  • Sleepio Member

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    Graduate

    I go to bed and go to sleep, waking up about 4 hours after. I go to the toilet get back into bed. I am comfortable, relaxed, and things drift through my mind. I am aware that I turn over, and time passes fairly quickly.
    Am I in light sleep or am I awake and just comfortable, I cannot decide?

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